This will be the last post from our Father's account. We hope to keep him alive with posts and stories forever. He loved all of you very much. We thank you for being his friend and hope to see you this Sunday at the event. Ingress RIP delta102 Originally shared by megan flowers One week ago we lost a great man. The response my family has gotten has been very heart warming. A lot people have reached out wanting to help us. We have set up a memorial fund in my father honor. These funds will be used for all the expenses that an unexpected death will bring, things we never thought we would have to deal with so soon. If the donations exceed the costs, it will be put towards his grandson's college fund. If you could please donate, you can do so at https://www.paypal.me/joesfund
Tell me about it. Challenging legitimate guardian portals and getting them removed is even cheaper and dirtier.
ReplyDeleteJoe Philley, I respect your perspective.... can you expound on it? Why do you think it's cheap and dirty?
ReplyDeleteComon now Joe :P
ReplyDeleteDid someone shoot your guardian down?
Rob Ogilvie if you have to ask there is no use telling why....that is not directed to you.
ReplyDeleteChris Jernigan we've had a similar streak of people up voting pictures based on the color of the name on the picture rather than the quality of the picture. :-(
ReplyDeleteSo where on the cheapness scale does "accidentally found a guardian, waited until 149 days to kill it" fall?
ReplyDeleteI support this message.
ReplyDeleteRon Parker -10
ReplyDeleteDavid Timothy in our situation is is a person doing it to troll folks they continually harass.
ReplyDeleteJoe Philley, I think Guardian Hunting is perfectly legitimate... not cheap and dirty. If holding a Guardian benefits the other team, I'd like to smash those resonators to deny them that benefit.
ReplyDeleteIf you believe my perspective is flawed, I'd like to know why. Most all of us hold you in high esteem and strongly respect your perspectives and opinions. You're an Agent's Agent. Explain why you're making the statement and maybe we'll change our minds?
If we are referring to the number of people using specially written scripts to find guardians, then yes I wholeheartedly agree. However, if I spend the time perusing the Intel map and find a portal that is being used for this purpose, I'm going to take it out. If it's a badge, it's part of the game.
ReplyDeleteWell Rob Ogilvie, I'd wager because it doesn't accomplish much. It's not an attempt to break a field, build a link, or even get an advantage for your team. If guardians get killed in normal game play, fine. However, if all you do is hunt down and kill guardians, that's just being vindictive.
ReplyDeleteOk.
ReplyDeleteI almost think the Guardian Badge should be removed (and it is one of my higher badges), as it seems to run counter to the game's objectives. To have a Guardian, the idea is to hide it away, keep it low level and don't link to it. The purpose of the game is to gain Mind Units and prevent the other team from doing the same. Guardians don't fit in that goal at all.
ReplyDeleteI've had my guardian taken out, didn't mind. It's all part of the game. Rule #5 in Ingress, don't become attached to a portal.
ReplyDeleteIf they are using tools to identify a players oldest portal, that's pretty cheap. Otherwise hunting is fair game in my book.
ReplyDeleteYeah, it sucks to lose yours. I lost mine recently. But it's all part of the game. I find it a legitimate tactic. Getting the guardian badges would be easy if there weren't guardian hunters. It sucks, but... hide your guardian better. I just lost mine this week, now I'm out to start over. I heard the trick is to setup 8-12 different guardians in the middle of nowhere, each in a different place. They won't all get hit, just the majority of them.
ReplyDeleteI'm salivating at the thought of killing guardians on this year's Biking Across Kansas ride... I might be able to skip SAG stops alltogether and just refill my water bottles with smurf tears.
ReplyDeleteI had my guardian taken out this morning. By Niantic.
ReplyDelete(It was at 220 days, and my faction change came through this morning.)
To Joe's original point though, I personally feel like guardian hunting- going out of your way to hit a remote portal controlled by someone else for an extended period of time- is simply part of the game when you're just cruising the Intel map looking for remote portals... When it gets dirty is when people use lists compiled by bots that scrape the Intel map automatically searching for those portals, making it all automatic - someone just has to call out a hit on the portals on the list. That causes a good amount of grief. Either way, a badge that relies on the generosity of your opponents, or their deciding to not use a list of targets that is handed to them is getting to be pretty hard to get.
ReplyDeleteJoe Philley it was not the Agents who chose the Guardian Badge to be of importance to leveling up...
ReplyDeleteWhat exactly did you expect?
Love life to its fullest first of the month party
ReplyDeleteYes, it is a dick move. And this is coming from someone who will kill guardians when they're found (motive: revenge. The local Res won't leave it alone, despite their claims they do, so why am I going to make it easy for them?).
ReplyDeleteI have to agree with Derrick Lathrop, though: The problem is that the badge and stat even exists. This has led to the creation of tools which simply scan the entire intel map looking for guardians, web sites dedicated to showing the current state of guardians for hours in every direction around a point, posts on reddit showing those sites, and endless other bits of cheating by both sides in their never ending attempts to prevent that badge. I've even had my guardian spoofed (taken down in the middle of a snow covered field with no human footprints near to it other than my own). The players involved who did it are still out there playing after my reporting them to Niantic.
I'm one of those "completist" types, so I'm going to keep trying for it, I think. Sooner or later, though, the only real option is to just say "Screw it. They're willing to cheat to deny me. Niantic won't do anything about the cheating. I'm not going to bother, I'll just kill their guardians when found."
I've already reached a similar point with portal submissions (why bother? they're going to get rejected after taking 5 or so months to decide to reject).
Rob Ogilvie If the portal is a game changer it has to go and go now.Hunting them just to kill is low and mean,They do not affect the game in anyway unless they use them as anchors and then its fair game.My friends do this so I'm not yelling at one side or the other it just not cool.I'm a trained hunter and have never killer anything just for fun.... ~I step down from my soap box~
ReplyDeleteJoe Philley Ever since the new levels came out the Guardian hunters on both Resistance & Enlightenment have been intense in seeking and destroying ALL Guardians in the state of Utah. I feel fortunate I got my Black Guardian badge before this killing spree started. I'm seeing allot of discouraged players on both teams because everyone knows it's almost impossible to get that badge now.
ReplyDeleteJoe PhilleyI submitted an email to +NIA Ops, in Ontario Canada some greens are running a script to scrape the server for portal date data, and make a list of portals to hit, if it's an area that no players exist, they send out a bot to take it down.
ReplyDeleteAgree with Mr. Philley. Guardian hunting doesn't fall within the normal spirit of Ingress.
ReplyDeleteChris Walker, it denies the opposing faction a badge, which can deny them a higher level. Higher levels mean increased capability (although minimal now, it's expected to be greater later). Denying the opposing faction increased capacity seems a pretty reasonable gameplay style to me.
ReplyDeleteWe had yesterday an Enl guardian 141 days portal blown by an Enl spoofing account. Hopefully NIA Ops can do faster checkup on @rObertAv agent (already reported through official channels)
ReplyDeleteLater update: the same account knocked-down using ADA another 140+ days Enl guardian
Joe Philley so the badge is a duplicate of the recharger badge? It's called the 'Guardian' badge.
ReplyDeleteI absolutely think the Guardian badge and the Max Time Portal Held stat should be removed, for the reasons Bryan Rickman states, and because there's currently no way to actually defend a portal against a JARVIS/ADA past the first hour. If we can't guard portals, why is Niantic awarding a badge for guarding portals?
ReplyDeleteLike it or not, as it stands today, Niantic, through actions if not words, is actively encouraging hunting guardian portals, by having this badge and by having badges tied to higher levels.
IMO the only thing the Guardian badge adds to Ingress is unnecessary drama. It should be removed.
Bot mining sucks. But that said, I love going on Guardian Kill missions. Nothing more satisfying than destroying a portal one day short of a badge. Well.. Ok, winning Anomaly events is but that's about it.
ReplyDeleteI don't usually seek guardian portals on Intel. Last time I broke one I was going through a nerby road, so I did it.
ReplyDeleteAgreed. It's the only way in the game to directly grief another playrr
ReplyDeleteA month or so ago I agreed with the sentiment. However, now that medals affect levels—guardian hunting is just part of the game.
ReplyDeleteXwwBjvv
ReplyDelete/sub
ReplyDeleteWhatever, Joe Philley. I captured your Portal fair and square.
ReplyDeleteAgree the spirit of guardian hunting is lame, but since defending portals is nearly impossible... It seems the badge is more luck/randomness than anything else.
ReplyDeleteVolta well said!! Or in the alternative, let agents be able to defend a portal somehow.
ReplyDeleteStart banning who uses plugins and speciale dbs
ReplyDeleteJoe Philley mine died this week also. 380 days young as well.
ReplyDeleteI'd like to take this moment to apologize to anyone whose guardians I may have knocked down while hunting for unique captures.
ReplyDeleteJoe Philley This is an easy fix. Don't display the date captured on intel. What good does a date on capture do now except knowing when someone is going to get their guardian badge. If the date is never shown, then guardian hunting goes away.
ReplyDeleteI understand that denying higher levels is an effect of guardian hunting, but I reject this as a rationalization, as higher levels grant no tactical advantage. If I were slinging L15 xmp and you really didn't want to know what an L16 xmp felt like... fine, but that's not the case. Denying me an achievement earned... is just a d*ck move. Further, many of us are aware that there are tools (against TOS) created specifically for guardian hunting; it is a practice that breeds cheating. +1 Joe Philley
ReplyDeleteJoe Philley I wonder if you know where his/her guardian portal is? You'll feel better going there and destroying it yourself ;)
ReplyDeleteI'm sorry, Joe Philley, but that's nonsense... This is a game with two teams. The goal of each team is to attempt to stop the other from accomplishing things, both team and personal achievements. It doesn't matter if the portal is a "game changer" or not, it's a portal in a game where the name of the game is to kill the other team's portal.
ReplyDeleteNow, if a guardian is found via unfair methods (scripts or whatever) then I agree that it's dirty... If I were to stumble upon, or use regular Intel map to find, someone's guardian portal there is no reason in the world that it isn't fair game.
I know that cross-faction friendliness is promoted within the game community, but fact is that this is a competition.
In short: If a guardian is found in a legit manner, it should absolutely be fair game to make an effort to take that guardian out.
Class people you have it or you don't. it no big deal to some but I'm "Old school" so it matters.I've said how I feel.I'm not saying someone has no class I'm just saying they have done in my eyes.people yell about the way people play and its up to us the agents to say how we want it played....maybe I'm beating a broken drum here but I'd like to like we're a classy group here and seeing this kind of cheap shot hurts....(and no no one's attacked mine as I don't keep one)
ReplyDeleteIncredibly ironic statement. Niantic has made a game that promotes cheap and dirty play and then criticizes their own creation.
ReplyDeleteJoe Philley Well said!! +1000
ReplyDeleteI've now lost seven at 87-89 days. I'm used to it now. It's just part of the game. But it still would be nice to have that platinum badge. :(
ReplyDeleteDerrick Lathrop Fully agree, remove the badge and that stat altogether.
ReplyDeleteIts a luck badge and guardian hunting, although being part of the game now, adds NOTHING positive to the game but just a lot of more drama ...
Furthermore when players then need to start working on Purifier or Builder for their second Platinum or higher levels, its healthier for the overall game...
:O
ReplyDeleteif someone is playing COD and they are on a kill spree do u NOT try to kill them so they can get their bonus?
ReplyDeleteJoe Philley only if it's done by cheating. Spoofing, multi accounts, Intel crawlers, and that sort of stuff.
ReplyDeleteWe might as well just stop attacking each others' portals altogether... Allow the other team's links and fields to go up and remain, so that they can achieve their other medals, as well... If it's a cheap shot to hunt someone's guardian, denying them their badges, then it's also a cheap shot to block their links and take down their fields (also denying their badges), no?
ReplyDeleteTodd Tabern sorry you don't understand but I still love ya.(it is easy to kill a defenceless portal)
ReplyDeleteGuardian portals should not be a badge, just as the seer should not be a badge, both of these are outside of the normal game play where you have control of the results and both encourage bad behavior. Fix the walking measurement to use gyro in addition to GPS (like a pedometer does) so that can be a badge, and give a badge for field destroying.
ReplyDeleteI went to some extreme lengths to snipe a guardian once. But that was mostly just revenge because I was using that portal as my guardian before the other agent sniped it from me and then tried to use it for his own. Ingress SITREP: Operation Sky-Fi
ReplyDeleteJorge Steffen I completely agree. The Guardian badge is kind of pointless, and really goes against everything that Ingress is about, which is fighting for control of portals. What good comes from holding the same portal forever?
ReplyDeleteOf course, I am speaking as someone who has yet to hold anything past 89 days and is a tad bitter.
Remove the date a portal was captured = The end of Guardian Hunting. Easy fix for NIA Ops
ReplyDeleteMike Nielsen Removing that date will not be enough. There are groups on both sides which run tools that capture global intel logs and store them. That alone will allow them to do guardian hunting.
ReplyDeleteI haven't seen the tools (with the exception of a website that was linked to on reddit recently), and don't know who writes them, but I have heard of them repeatedly.
Joe Philley I understand competition. Ingress is competition. :)
ReplyDelete#avalanche
ReplyDeleteTyrone Davis
ReplyDeleteI disagree. Guardian Hunting is what makes this badge hard to get. The fact that people break the ToS so often to destroy these is the problem. Same thing can be said about anchor points.
ReplyDeleteJoe Philley is it bad class to use XMPs to kill portals? I find it funny the guardian kill lists exist, but of course, I already have a black badge for guardian.
ReplyDeleteBut I also spent many the power cube with a group of a half dozen other L8 agents actually defending the portal, and it helped that it was a 5 minute drive down the road.
We actually guarded the portal.
Todd Tabern just collect that google data and don't cause any problems. This isn't a game, it's a massive data collection project. Geez.
ReplyDeleteIndonesia
ReplyDeleteAgreed. remove the date, time and capture notification on COMM...OR the medal. It ruins a lot of x-faction communities.
ReplyDeleteKilling guardians is just another way of preventing enemy agents from leveling up...
ReplyDeleteRemove the badge... No Guardian sniping...
ReplyDeleteAndrea de'Rose
ReplyDeleteThe badge should be removed from the game. It and "Seer" are the only badges that are dependent on others. Since its inception, this badge has fueled animosity between factions, caused rifts in communities and initiated tit for tat attacks.
ReplyDeleteAmen Joe, I've left several of our factions hangouts because of crap like this. Hunting portals for the sole reason of denying someone a guardian badge is the act of classless people. I don't give a crap what faction you belong to. And, for the record, I have my onyx badge so I'm done with that drama.
ReplyDeleteWe had a local agent that had a meltdown in Comm over a Guardian portal being smashed...
ReplyDeleteGeebus that was worth way more than the badge... Hehehe...
Derrick Lathrop Agent to agent worked in the USSS the FBI and a few other agencies I worked for.I in no way think this will stop bad behavior but I'm hoping it will wake up the "True" agents and that's all I'm hoping for here.
ReplyDeleteI think another primary consideration here is correction: if someone spoofs to create or remove an anomaly field, it's corrected in scoring, If someone spoofs to take out a guardian. You're screwed. There's no reinstatement of a dead portal or award of a badge after the fact. There's simply 5 more months or so of waiting. High profile players? L15? They'll never get a guardian with the scripting and spoofing guardian hunters. I'd almost bet money that the two L16's had their black guardians when badges went live.
ReplyDeleteWouldn't the simple fix be to just remove the date portals are captured from the intel map if NIA doesn't want this happening?
ReplyDeleteSomeone in my local hangout had a good point -- why do we have a badge based not on what we do, but rather based on what the opposition DOESN'T do? (Kill our portal) We all know that defending a portal by recharging doesn't work, especially with the existence of ADA and Jarvis. Maintaining control of a portal for a long time is NOT an achievement. It is 100% pure luck.
ReplyDeleteMiller. Beer..supllay
ReplyDeletePopcorn, anyone? ;)
ReplyDeleteA game of 2 teams, trying to accomplish something. Naturally, denying the other team's accomplishment is beneficial and a part of the game. Like in every other game or sport with 2 teams. Declaring guardian hunting bad is akin to yelling at a defender blocking a shot on goal "Get out of the way, jackass. I'm trying to score here"
ReplyDeleteWhen guardian portals gave you only a badge it was just a dick move, now it's a way to prevent somebody from reaching a higher level, higher level gives an advantage in game (although small, but still). Destroying guardian portal prevent's your opponents getting stronger. Ergo it's fair game.
ReplyDeleteWell said.Joe Philley There are still a lot of agents that have class, understand the meaning of fair-play, and enjoy the game, and don't need cheap and dirty strategies to be great agents. I wish there were many more thinking that way - the game would have much more fun (not at expense of someone else's rage).
ReplyDeleteIf everyone is entitled to get their black guardian badges, unopposed, then you might as well just give everyone a black guardian badge.
ReplyDeleteIt has nothing at all to do with class. Some of the fiercest competitors out there take pride in stopping their opponents from accomishing anything but are friendly with those same opponents when not in competition, and are full of class. They don't lack class, they're just playing the game.
Again, using illegal tactics to accomplish these things is another story...
If that's the case tell Brandon Badger to remove the captured date from the Intel map
ReplyDeleteJoe Philley the solution is easy. Niantic Project NIA Ops can make a change to the intel map so that it no longer shows capture dates. I also feel that there is no reason to have all of the comm data since the beginning of the game, able to be viewed by any agent on the Intel map. I understand why Niantic would need this info logged, but it does not need to be public info on the Intel map. It could be capped at a max number of days for all agents
ReplyDeleteIf those two changes were made, I believe guardian hunting would come to a screeching halt.
Wow I don't know what the hell you're talking about at all but I just read all of the comments on this post for some reason unknown to me
ReplyDelete141dd the first :-(
ReplyDelete143dd the second x(
170dd the third lol
146dd and running the fourth (f***k the frogs and #NORAD ) XD
Francesco Cecchi
Fabio Colinelli
Kulendra Janaka
ReplyDeletehi
ReplyDeleteHunting Guardians before the badges came out was unethical, but not illegal. Hunting Guardians after the badge did come out became justifiable but still was not tactical. Hunting Guardians because it's the one and only badge that you can actually actively prevent an agent from obtaining before leveling up is now tactical. Change the rules of how you reach Level 16 and you have a deal.
ReplyDeleteJoe Philley Brandon Badger When you tied badges to levelling, you made guardian hunting a legit tactic. All it does is add drama, as Volta and Bryan Rickman have pointed out. It frustrates players and contributes to a style of gameplay and attitudes that are corrosive to the fun atmosphere of the game.
ReplyDeleteGUARDIAN BADGE HAS GOTTA GO. It's one of my golds and honestly, you can take it. I'm willing to lose one of my gold badges if it means the game as a whole improves for it.
Laura Jarrett it's a great stat, but a terrible badge.
ReplyDeleteWhile it was fun to annoy people and have that hope you might get the new badge before new levels, it's now a strategic move to deny players the ability to level as rapidly.
It might be a bit hard to get badge removal support, now that levels already use it. This badge was created to incite exactly this sort of thing.
We apparently had a x-faction guardian discussion blow up last night. I was glad not to be involved, but got name dropped as a "Well, if you take mine out, I'm taking his and his and his and his!" I can't really complain when (not if) mine is taken out, because I totally do not deserve to have 110+ days for the portal I've got. I'm hoping to share more later, after it's gone, but for right now, having two big local opponents know its location is more than enough. :)
ReplyDelete#getridoftheguardianbadge should become a thing.
ReplyDelete
ReplyDeletesorrrrrrry
im young boy im 14 years old only
The Guardian badge should disappear... the Stat should remain. It should no longer affect leveling. People who have gotten a level thanks to the badge should not lose it... but it should no longer count towards any further levels.
ReplyDeleteMaking badges part of leveling only gives assholes more of an incentive to hunt guardians along with normal people now (people who aren't trying to grief the other side..just playing the game). It was just a status symbol before... now it's an active part of the game...I can't fault people for playing the game and trying to prevent me from leveling. It is a strategy no different than denying farms...preventing fields from being made...or any other anti-leveling tactic. As much as you don't like it Joe Philley they will target them now even more because they affect leveling. The badge should be removed and replaced with another that isn't quite so contentious.
I've pretty much given up on getting my 90 Guardian after a toad here drive two hours to Western IL to take out my guardians (3 portals with 1 R8 each and two shields...in some of the smallest and remote towns I could find with a post office portal... and he used one for a field in the boonies which didn't a amount to shit for MU count) at 88 days. They scrape for guardians here... so no Guardian goes overlooked. If your Guardian doesn't get hit it was either hidden in a no access facility (like seasonal), they somehow forgot, or they just don't give a crap about you.
Brandon Mitchell as far as Seer. It's my favorite badge. It's the only in-game action that benefits the WHOLE community, not just your team or personal pride. Portal Monkey woes and long waits aside, I encourage everyone to work towards Seer: make the game better.
ReplyDeleteAll goes down to how and why you do it....I'll leave that there.
ReplyDeleteDidn't I read somewhere on some official ingress thing that the biggest mistake people make is acting like a portal belongs to them? And if its such a bad thing why not make a portal harder to kill the older it gets? :)
ReplyDeleteI won't outright disagree with Joe Philley here. A good majority of "Guardian hunting" that occurs is done by scrapers (aka bots/scripts) that automatically compile a spreadsheet or map of targets that entire faction communities have access to. Some players then resort to spoofing those targets down so they don't have to go out of their way. Those that use these methods to deny others of badges and levels are classless assholes that should be removed from the game.
ReplyDeleteHowever, searching for old portals legitimately by scouring Intel and then traveling out to capture them is just as much a part of the game as killing this anchor, or destroying that farm. The only difference is that the former only pisses off one person; the latter pisses off an entire group of people.
If you think the Guardian badge should be a freebie, either give a black to everyone automatically or remove it from the game. It's meant to be earned, but much of the animosity surrounding this situation is due to having to fight scrapers and spoofers in the process, and no legitimate player can win out against that kind of bullshit.
Unfortunately, the Guardian is the only badge that competitive players can affect. Earning the Seer badge only NIA can affect. Every other badge is solely dependent on the player's activity. Since badges are no longer 'bragging right achievements' and are now a part of leveling, Guardian hunting is the only way an active agent can attempt to deny/delay someone else from leveling (aka competitive play). It's true that L9-L16 doesn't gain us much now, but who's to know what the future will bring. Hunting Guardians has become a tactical move to delay the other faction from gaining an upper-hand in the future.
ReplyDeleteIf you want the gameplay to change, the rules of engagement have to change - promote actions as you want them to play out. You don't even have to remove the badges as achievements, just change what badges count towards levels and keep them geared towards the goals and spirit of the game. I'd love to see anomaly, Founder, and Verified badges added to the leveling count as well as some new badges that promote proper gameplay - Links Destroyed, Fields Destroyed, Largest Control Field, and something relative to Regional Score.
Derek Thorson, perfectly said!
ReplyDeleteJoe Philley its to limit The other faction's effectiveness at recharging and combat.
ReplyDeleteIt's psy-ops...pure and simple, designed to demotivate the other player and prevent leveling. I'd rather the badge not exist, but because it does...I'm not past doing it. It's happened to me on a regular basis.
ReplyDeleteJoe Philley The 'how' and 'why' don't matter. The only reason it's done at all is because of a design misstep that made the badge important. Including it in the first place was unnecessary, tying it to levelling is actively destructive to a positive play atmosphere. It's a source of stress and ill-will, it's used to actively troll people which encourages a griefing arms race between communities... it's just bad. Bad bad bad, and needs to go. #GetRidOfGuardians
ReplyDeleteIf some one invaded us i would do the same thing they are only doing what they believe to be right like we are any different. The us invaded because we though it was the right thing to do.put that in your pipes
ReplyDeleteI wouldn't call myself a guardian Hunter, maybe a guardian assassin. I don't look for guardians, but I do look to control all portals in remote places as a strategic advantage. When an anchor is needed or a YOLO, I can provide them. This unfortunately means GPs within hundreds of miles where I live aren't going to survive. I usually don't know who owns them or how old they are, just that they were the wrong color and weren't linkable by me.
ReplyDelete"How and why you do it"
ReplyDeleteI'm on the other team, it's my job to stop you from achieving things.
Okay everyone. When you spot a guardian, do not destroy it. And when the other team kills your guardian, do not kill theirs. Guardians for everyone! What's the point of this badge again? Joe Philley
ReplyDeleteJohn Stocks +10000
ReplyDeleteAs many of you have heard me repeatedly say, there are rules and then there are community standards. Ingress is a game were community standards are playing a larger part. We may not have real time impact on rules but we certainly do on community standards. While there will always be lone wolves if community though elects to say guardian hunting for no tactical advantage other than to target a individual agent is not acceptable it would serve to lower cross faction tensions.
ReplyDelete#majorsmurftears
ReplyDeleteJohn Stocks Man, where's the +5 button for your post?
ReplyDeleteIt should have never been a badge IMO. No way to keep a portal that long without someone going after it.
ReplyDeleteI don't think Niantic envisioned players hiding portals to get the badge. They wanted to see who could hold and defend a fully stocked portal.
ReplyDeleteKevin Hagan as others have said, the badge is now tied to leveling, therefore there's a tactical advantage, always.
ReplyDeleteAlso, that'd be impossible to judge. Unless the person flat out says why they killed the guardian who's to say that they didn't think the move was legitimately tactical?
Totally agree... how low can you go...?
ReplyDeleteAnd uh, please don't kill the L8 portals near my home and work. I really really like to hack them. If you do it's kind of dirty.... sound silly? So does this whole topic. -5000 for even starting this thread.
ReplyDeleteJoe Philley i have to disagree. Taking out a guardian is no different then recharging a portal to prevent it from being taken. Yes, it prevents someone from getting a badge. However, denial of AP, and by extension, leveling, has always been a legit tactic. This is the only badge agents have any direct control over.
ReplyDeleteIf someone is hunting legit, the rules say it is legal, so it isn't dirty. Perhaps it doesn't fit into some people's view of the game, but until Niantic deems to define how we each should play, it will stay in the game.
If the badge stays (and it absolutely should), the answer would be for niantic to improve notifications and defense to make a single portal defensible, perhaps including a VR mod that can prevent a portal from having a virus used on it.
Pan
O
ReplyDeleteJeff H Its hows its being done that upsets me.
ReplyDeleteScript users should be banned
ReplyDeleteR. Ray - Archangel Mike Heeringa #assholes
ReplyDeleteyou are what's wrong with the game
Joe Philley maybe as a portal ages it should become harder to kill. I like the idea of a 90day portal getting a cool ability, like every xmp you fire at it drains your xm to 0. You could still theoretically kill it, but with way more effort and that also gives the owner the chance to recharge if they so desire.
ReplyDeleteJoe Philley - perhaps you should adjust your statement to reflect the "how" of it? Is it the cheating done to hunt and take out Guardians that you disagree with?
ReplyDeleteFrank Gutierrez We don't have access to portal captured date via the scanner. Just saying. :P :P :P
ReplyDeleteY do u hate it
ReplyDeleteinstead of a guardian, which has absolute no benefit for the gameplay, as the "taking care of portals" is done by recharger Joe Philley, you should enable a better badge . so remove the guardian and put in a really game based badge like the opposite of the mindcontroller "freed mind units". this is what the game is about. who controls the MU and so building and eliminating fields is what you should count.
ReplyDeleteJason Gallo I agree with you completely...it is one thing to come across a guardian portal by happenstance, but using third party apps/scripts to populate a list is a different story...
ReplyDeleteTim Johnston I am now interested in the other rules of ingress you have.
ReplyDeleteLexy Rochelle make sure to let Joe Philley know you are a guardian hunting enthusiast before you take your obligatory selfie with him at the JAX anomaly. Joe Philley I completely agree that's guardian hunting is dirty pool and lends itself to using data mining tools against TOS.
ReplyDeleteY u agree hunting Is awsome :-D
ReplyDeleteI support these message. don't get too attached to your guardian
ReplyDeleteKrisztina Thaisz so easy to spot a typical guardian. 8,1,1,1,1,1,1,1. Shield, shield.
ReplyDeleteAnd using a car to ingress is cheating. You can cover more portals than I can with my feet. Cargressing is a dirty tactic and should be banned by niantic.... sound silly? yea... just play the game your way and quit worrying about how other people play. -1000000000 more for this thread.
ReplyDeleteWhen does a portal become a candidate for a guardian? At the moment it's captured? At the moment just before the tick? Every portal if left alone will become a guardian. Are you saying we shouldn't destroy and capture portals?
ReplyDeleteHow about you add a new badge.. 'Oldest portal destroyed' that way there is incentive to keep old portals around :)
ReplyDeleteCraig Greenwald What you're not understanding about peoples' problem with the badge and the practice is, because of the way it has been implemented, it encourages negative behavior that is counter to how the game is normally played. People are encouraged to try and hide portals, and more often than not opponents will wait until the very last moment before killing the portal, simply to troll the opponent. It exists, right now, to foster toxic attitudes and play styles.
ReplyDeleteFrank Gutierrez Or just go about my business and destroy everything, right? ;-)
ReplyDeleteMark Davis you must first determine whether that portal is, or ever will be tactically advantageous for the opponent. If no, you can't destroy, if yes you are free to destroy. =P
ReplyDeleteJoe Philley Brandon Badger NIA Oops
ReplyDeleteOk, going to admit I only read though 2/3 the comments, so if this was already brought up, consider this a +1 to the original comment.
Obviously there are people on both sides of this very grey fence. I would love to see something that can benefit players on BOTH sides of this issue.
If a player's guardian is taken out, give that agent 12 to 24 hours to reclaim that portal and the count can continue. Even if you wanted to make it more difficult, make it one scoring cycle. If someone takes out your guardian right before the scoring cycle, you have 4 hours to reclaim it to continue your count. If two scoring cycles pass without you owning it, that guardian is lost.
Let's face it, the bots and scripts are going to continue. This would at least give players a chance against those that cheat. It also helps with the bot/script users, since they are mining for capture date, they will not be getting accurate info on guardian portals.
/sub
ReplyDeleteJimmy Mayer Seeing how long you can defend a fully loaded portal made sense before Jarvis/ADA, how do you defend against someone who rolls up and uses a virus to flip a guardian?
ReplyDeleteGreat idea, Devin Langford!
ReplyDeleteJoe Philley there it is ... Brandon Badger got your guardian.
ReplyDeleteThe guardian badge is the only one that is not automatic. If you play Ingress long enough you will eventually achieve all of the other badges. Guardian is the only one where an opponent can stop you. That is the game within the game. The system is fine the way it is. Don't change a thing.
For hunting guardians, automated tools are cheating. But if you have 30-40 pairs of eyes checking the Intel map and sharing that data, that is teamwork and within the letter and spirit of the rules.
So on this one Joe Philley, I must say, "I disagree, circle takes the square."
A portal is a portal. Due to many factors it might become highly strategic one day and forgotten about for months. Date captured is a metric. Doesn't matter how much emotional weight we want to give them.
ReplyDeleteSarah Rosen sorry you don't get it..but I still love ya.
ReplyDeleteI hunt guardians and will continue to do so until it becomes against the rules.
ReplyDeleteThe crux of this disagreement is that it isn't against the rules. Even if it was, how could you tell?
This game is about destroying and rebuilding. Why are guardians any different?
Possible solutions (any and/or all):
ReplyDelete1: Rename the badge to hide and seek.
2: Make the badge dependent on defending from attacks as opposed to avoiding them
3: Remove the badge
4: Don't make L16 pretty much dependent on black guardian
5: Do not allow virii on portals over x days old
6: Helicopters
Kristy Griffey (y)
ReplyDeleteVery helpful Nathan Gabrish
ReplyDeleteJoe Philley is saying that if it's done out of malice and purely for farming tears, it's poor sportsmanship. Not that it's wrong or unethical. He's giving us his personal opinion. ty Joe.
ReplyDeleteSimple solution to mix things up:
ReplyDelete1) Take the date off of the Intel map
2) Make date visible only on an owned key to the portal
P
ReplyDeleteNot sure if this has been proposed, I've not read everything. But could we remove the date captured from Intel? This way there would be less chance of people doing this? Probably would not remove the issue all together, but could help.
ReplyDeleteHunting guardians is the only thing keeping some players around.
ReplyDeleteDevin Langford I would actually make it three scoring cycles, just to provide for the work schedule problem (i.e.: If it's known I work from 9 to 5, find the day during the week leading up to a badge that will see the current cycle ending at 9am. Nuke the guardian at 8:50am. I am now unable to get back out to it in time, due to work, if it's just one or two cycles. Three would ensure at least a 10 hour window).
ReplyDeleteThere's a legitimate non-griefer reason to leave a discovered guardian until day 89. Until then, there's always a chance someone else will flip it in the course of "normal" play. It isn't until then that an out-of-the-way trip actually becomes necessary to prevent the achievement. It may help some victims of guardian hunters to think of it that way.
ReplyDeleteLMFAO! Just realizing Joe Philley pretty much just trolled the whole Ingress community...
ReplyDeleteWe'll played, sir, well played.
I love the idea that if you recapture it within 24 hrs the count resumes
ReplyDeleteProvided it's found legitimately and not by an automated scraper, it's a valid target imo. If I see a field going up, I'm going to block it. If I see a hub, I'm going to kill it. Why? Because it's detrimental to my opponents and therefore beneficial to my team. If the intention was for every monkey with 2 thumbs to be able to button mash their way to L16 like it was to L8, then badges shouldn't be a factor in leveling. As long as they are, the Guardian badge is the ONLY one that your opponents have any say in a person achieving, so I don't agree with letting someone get a badge and becoming a stronger opponent being in the 'spirit of the game'.
ReplyDeleteJoe Philley if you don't want people hunting down guardian portals then don't post the age of the portal on Intel!
ReplyDeleteJoe Philley this post is a troll post... right? this can't be a serious take... first, until there is an approved Intel App, you can't even start to have this argument... second, knowing about an opposing faction's guardian portal, being able to kill, and leaving it alone could easily be misconstrued as a violation of ToS.... last, isn't every portal a guardian portal til it gets killed?
ReplyDeleteMario Valenzuela II The right people will do the right thing...That is all I shooting for here.trust me this works, the cream always floats to the top.
ReplyDeleteHow is it an achievement, if people let you have it? When people in London On, Ca, see you have your guardian, they know you worked for it, as we have plenty of Guardian hunters.
ReplyDeleteWhen mine got hit at 84 days, I called him a dick, and congratulated him. I then went to his small (entirely blue) town and flipped every portal and took his guardian. He gave me a beer and said good job.
TL;DR: It's hard, that's the point, don't cry, get even.
Malachi Megiddo I think it's more about the script that one faction runs to find out which portal is being used as a guardian an extension of iitc if my source is correct. I don't think it is about genuine hunting methods
ReplyDeleteTimothy Lung The right people will do the right thing...That is all I shooting for here
ReplyDeleteyo bump
ReplyDeleteWow.difficult to persieve
ReplyDeleteTaking portal age off the Intel site would help some, but it seems pretty clear that there are scripts running that scrape capture messages from COMM and use them as a first estimate of portal age.
ReplyDeleteJoe Philley, the "right thing" is subjective, though.
ReplyDeleteOur local RES Guardian Killer hasn't managed to get past Gold, and we keep it that way. He's travelled hundreds of miles to attack single portals because they're Guardians, so we hunt his. (He went to Ipswich, somewhere he'd never been heard of before, and ADA'd my 88 day Guardian, didn't touch any of the 6 or 7 within walking distance that all had my res on as well)
ReplyDeleteXxx xcxxxf
ReplyDeleteI wholeheartedly agree that people who have written scripts suck, and yes, it feels dirty. However, Joe Philley , if you can, can you elaborate on the dirty feeling when it is now a strategy play to limit the higher badges that your opponents can get?
ReplyDeleteR. Ray - Archangel People like you are the reason Joe Philley made this post to begin with. Stay classy, sister.
ReplyDeleteMost of us do it because it was done to us.
ReplyDeleteEspecially when it gets done through the use of guardian hunting scripts run and maintained by some of the most outspoken advocates of "playing clean." cough
Mark smith I don't think it's that at all since he clearly said he doesn't care who does it.
ReplyDelete"hunting guardian portals is cheap and dirty"
Then I'm cheap and dirty. But I'm not a cheater. And frog tears are delicious.
Might as well throw in other methods such as player poaching, trolling, gear denial, redeploying on an attacking agent, etc.
ReplyDeletePart of any game is technical/tactical. But another part of the game is psychological. Accept it, or uninstall?
I was never a fan of the guardian badge in the first place b/c it doesn't really facilitate team play. I guess you can stretch it and say guardian hunting has probably facilitated team play more than the acquisition of one ;)
So why not just remove the capture date from Intel? Probablem solved!!
ReplyDeleteI have no issue with legitimate Hunting I think that is all part of the game, it's the illegitimate use of scripts I have an issue with.
ReplyDeleteOh hello joe were u from
ReplyDeleteDerrick Lathrop what defines a true player? My hundreds of hours playing? 8mil ap? Badges? All that counts for nothing because i hunt guardians?
ReplyDeleteTrue players play all aspects of the game, including preventing other players from getting achievements.
I call BS on your definition of a true player. If it's in the game and legel, a true player will chase it. Scrubs complain about tactics that are legal in game, true players find ways to succeed.
http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/intermediates-guide.html
R. Ray - Archangel Not everyone is into the "GET #REKT SCRUB, LRN 2 NOSCOPE" ultracompetetive culture, given to us by 12yo gamers and adopted by the 'adults' that want to compete with them in some sort of cultural arms race to see who can become more intolerable first. \
ReplyDeleteWhat many of us are calling for is for it to be either removed, or better yet, replaced with a mechanic that is more in keeping with how the game should be played. There's opportunity here for improvement. Clearly this is something people care about. Why be a speed bump when you can help figure out a way so that the overall experience for everyone is improved?
The second half of your post contradicts your first.
ReplyDeleteAlso, Augmented Person Problems.
can ya'll give me concrete definition of a Guardian portal?
ReplyDeleteand at what age is the KILL or DO NOT kill?
so it can recognized..
i saw in comm. one enl. yelled at another enl for taking over his guardian (upgraded over owner ress, owner put no level 8 ress)..
he response was "what's a guardian?".. how was he supposed to know what the OTHER guy had planned for this portal
just want to be informed.. cuz knowledge is power.. :)
I have twice the AP of any agent in my area (Hampton Roads) I am the most hated by the other faction around here. I would be very close to lvl16 right now if I focused on making a guardian early on. Now with the non ToS tools they have tracking me I don't even bother trying. Instead I have to go for other onyx badges.
ReplyDeleteSome even had their guardian badge before badges came out to even be looked for. Lucky them. This directly affects the level system..
The problem with the idea of a "Guardian" portal is that defense is impossible. The badge is misnamed. It should be the "Opposing Faction Doesn't Give a Fuck about your God-damned portal" badge.
ReplyDeleteGuardian hunting has been going on for centuries. It's known in the real world as an "honor killing" or a "blood feud". You won't change basic human behavior in Ingress either.
ReplyDeleteHow is capping a portal to deny the other side a badge any worse than destroying a farm to deny the opposition gear? IMHO it's not and it's all part of the game.
They see me rollin
ReplyDeleteThey hatin
Patrolling they tryin to catch me ridin dirty
Tryin to catch me ridin dirty
How to repel flies?
ReplyDeleteHello
ReplyDeleteI love to kill Guardians. Or supply info to other agents to kill Guardians. Remove the stat and it no longer happens. It's not a matter of class. If I let you max out your badge, you can level up. It is leveling mitigation. We should not be all 😢 when it comes to this game.
ReplyDeleteAnother tactic that is wonderful... A sonata written by JP Loinsigh "Low level xmp attack of a Guardian in the key if C major" Hear the song of our people.
Niantic unmunged all params for intel requests today, why don't they at least try to make it harder for people with guardian-searching-scripts?
ReplyDeleteTell that to the Ontario Enlightened. Fortunately I already have my 90 days which is all I need now. They are using screen scraped intel to generate kill lists. And if a human can't reach it they send bots to do the job.
ReplyDelete88 and "L8 green city" op made my guardian portal target #1 in neighbourhood
ReplyDeleteWow Jeff H! That definition of a Scrub in your link is pure gold. http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/intermediates-guide.html
ReplyDeleteThat's it..
ReplyDelete